Mediterráneo Oriental más Irán, Irak chií y Turquía

Zonas o temas a tratar: Mediterráneo Oriental más Irán, Irak chií y Turquía (Siria, Líbano-Hezbolá, Israel, Territorios Palestinos-Hamás, Turquía, Irán y el Irak chií), Consejo de Cooperación del Golfo, Jordania y Yemen (Bahréin, Kuwait, Omán, Qatar, Arabia Saudí y los Emiratos Árabes Unidos y Jordania y Yemen)

Moderadores: Mod. 1, Mod. 5, Mod. 4, Mod. 3, Mod. 2

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Zonas o temas a tratar: Mediterráneo Oriental más Irán, Irak chií y Turquía (Siria, Líbano-Hezbolá, Israel, Territorios Palestinos-Hamás, Turquía, Irán y el Irak chií), Consejo de Cooperación del Golfo, Jordania y Yemen (Bahréin, Kuwait, Omán, Qatar, Arabia Saudí y los Emiratos Árabes Unidos y Jordania y Yemen)
pagano
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Loopster escribió:¿Alguien más cree que Zimmerman está metido en todos los fregados... muy desde dentro? :wink:
Es que Zimmerman tiene una preparación que no tiene otros periodistas (fue profesor de ciencias políticas en la universidad de su ciudad natal: Oporto), además de muy buenas relaciones con los servicios de inteligencia no sólo israelí (también tiene muy buenas conexiones en los servicios de inteligencia egipcios y ....).
Recordad la entrevista que hizo al viejo paralítico de Hamás (que voló con silla de ruedas incluída). Yasín querían la entrevista con un israelí que no hubiera servido en Tzahal (Zimmerman no servido en Tzahal por estar dentro de la Ley del Retorno que permite a los judíos inmigrados mayores de 15 años y un día no servir activamente en Tzahal). Pues toda la entrevista (incluso la no emitida, porque lleva montaje de edición) le fue pedida por el SB, que le felicitó por el trabajo.
Además, es uno (por no decir el único) que es objetivo en su información, incluso en los análisis que hace los hace totalmente objetivamente, sin verter su opinión personal al respecto. Cuando da su opinión personal, lo hace haciendo refencia a cuando le piden opciones ante un hecho concreto y él da las opciones que ve posibles ante ese hecho.

Un gran periodista. Es el único periodista occidental del que me fio en su información sobre la zona
kilo009
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Parece que en el ataque Israel y EEUU compartieron muy buena información. Además, hoy hubo una reunión de alto nivel en Pyongyang entre Corea del Norte y Siria.
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kilo009
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Hay que tener en cuenta el agravante que existe entre la relación Irán-Hezbolá, a través de Siria. No se la posición que tendrían los sirios, pero si es verdad lo que se comenta, que había técnicos iraníes de por medio, y dado el caso, esos misiles cargados (ya sea con armas químicas, o más dificilmente nucleares) llegan a las manos de un grupo terrorista como pueda ser Hezbolá, la cosa se complicaría bastante para Israel. La verdad es que fue un gran golpe quirúrgico
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Esteban
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El WPOST publicó ayer un excelente trabajo sobre el raid israelí. Parece que en esta ocasión han evitado una proliferación de WMD estilo A. Q. Khan, con varios paises y Corea del Norte por medio.

Con respecto a lo que dice Kilo009 de Hizbullah, basta recordar las fanfarronadas de Nasrallah de poseer todo tipo de armas, incluidas las químicas.
Israel, U.S. Shared Data On Suspected Nuclear Site
Bush Was Told of North Korean Presence in Syria, Sources Say

By Glenn Kessler and Robin Wright
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 21, 2007; Page A01

Israel's decision to attack Syria on Sept. 6, bombing a suspected nuclear site set up in apparent collaboration with North Korea, came after Israel shared intelligence with President Bush this summer indicating that North Korean nuclear personnel were in Syria, U.S. government sources said.

The Bush administration has not commented on the Israeli raid or the underlying intelligence. Although the administration was deeply troubled by Israel's assertion that North Korea was assisting the nuclear ambitions of a country closely linked with Iran, sources said, the White House opted against an immediate response because of concerns it would undermine long-running negotiations aimed at persuading North Korea to abandon its nuclear program.

Ultimately, however, the United States is believed to have provided Israel with some corroboration of the original intelligence before Israel proceeded with the raid, which hit the Syrian facility in the dead of night to minimize possible casualties, the sources said.

The target of Israel's attack was said to be in northern Syria, near the Turkish border. A Middle East expert who interviewed one of the pilots involved said they operated under such strict operational security that the airmen flying air cover for the attack aircraft did not know the details of the mission. The pilots who conducted the attack were briefed only after they were in the air, he said. Syrian authorities said there were no casualties.

U.S. sources would discuss the Israeli intelligence, which included satellite imagery, only on condition of anonymity, and many details about the North Korean-Syrian connection remain unknown. The quality of the Israeli intelligence, the extent of North Korean assistance and the seriousness of the Syrian effort are uncertain, raising the possibility that North Korea was merely unloading items it no longer needed. Syria has actively pursued chemical weapons in the past but not nuclear arms -- leaving some proliferation experts skeptical of the intelligence that prompted Israel's attack.

Syria and North Korea both denied this week that they were cooperating on a nuclear program. Bush refused to comment yesterday on the attack, but he issued a blunt warning to North Korea that "the exportation of information and/or materials" would affect negotiations under which North Korea would give up its nuclear programs in exchanges for energy aid and diplomatic recognition.

"To the extent that they are proliferating, we expect them to stop that proliferation, if they want the six-party talks to be successful," he said at a news conference, referring to negotiations that also include China, Japan, South Korea and Russia.

Unlike its destruction of an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981, Israel made no announcement of the recent raid and imposed strict censorship on reporting by the Israeli media. Syria made only muted protests, and Arab leaders have remained silent. As a result, a daring and apparently successful attack to eliminate a potential nuclear threat has been shrouded in mystery.

"There is no question it was a major raid. It was an extremely important target," said Bruce Riedel, a former intelligence officer at Brookings Institution's Saban Center for Middle East Policy. "It came at a time the Israelis were very concerned about war with Syria and wanted to dampen down the prospects of war. The decision was taken despite their concerns it could produce a war. That decision reflects how important this target was to Israeli military planners."

Israel has long known about Syria's interest in chemical and even biological weapons, but "if Syria decided to go beyond that, Israel would think that was a real red line," Riedel said.

Edward Djerejian, a former U.S. ambassador to Syria and founding director of Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy, said that when he was in Israel this summer he noticed "a great deal of concern in official Israeli circles about the situation in the north," in particular whether Syria's young ruler, Bashar al-Assad, "had the same sensitivity to red lines that his father had." Bashar succeeded his Hafez al-Assad as president of Syria in 2000.

The Israeli attack came just three days after a North Korean ship docked at the Syrian port of Tartus, carrying a cargo that was officially listed as cement.

The ship's role remains obscure. Israeli sources have suggested it carried nuclear equipment. Others have maintained that it contained only missile parts, and some have said the ship's arrival and the attack are merely coincidental. One source suggested that Israel's attack was prompted by a fear of media leaks on the intelligence.

The Bush administration's wariness when presented with the Israeli intelligence contrasts with its reaction in 2002, when U.S. officials believed they had caught North Korea building a clandestine nuclear program in violation of a nuclear-freeze deal arranged by the Clinton administration.

After the Bush administration's accusation, the Clinton deal collapsed and North Korea restarted a nuclear reactor, stockpiled plutonium and eventually conducted a nuclear test. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice convinced Bush this year to accept a deal with North Korea to shut down the reactor, infuriating conservatives inside and outside the administration.

But for years, Bush has also warned North Korea against engaging in nuclear proliferation, specifically making that a red line that could not be crossed after North Korea tested a nuclear device last year. The Israeli intelligence therefore suggested North Korea was both undermining the agreement and crossing that line.

Conservative critics of the administration's recent diplomacy with North Korea have seized on reports of the Israeli intelligence as evidence that the White House is misguided if it thinks it can ever strike a lasting deal with Pyongyang. "However bad it might be for the six-party talks, U.S. security requires taking this sort of thing seriously," said John R. Bolton, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations who was a top arms control official in Bush's first term.

But advocates of engagement have accused critics of trying to sabotage the talks. China on Monday abruptly postponed a round of six-party talks scheduled to begin this week, but U.S. officials now say the talks should start again Thursday.

Some North Korean experts said they are puzzled why, if the reports are true, Pyongyang would jeopardize the hard-won deal with the United States and the other four countries. "It does not make any sense at all in the context of the last nine months," said Charles "Jack" Pritchard, a former U.S. negotiator with North Korea and now president of the Korea Economic Institute.
La necesidad permite lo prohibido.
pagano
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No es cuestión baladí.
Cuando hace unos, Hezbolá usó un UAV para sobrevolar territorio israelí (fue derribado ya en territorio hebreo), la inteligencia militar israelí se lo tomó muy en serio porque valoraba la posibilidad de que en futuras acciones se hiciera un ataque NBQ a través de estos vectores.
kilo009
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Es que ponte en la situación de los israelíes, un líder iraní que proclama la destrucción de Israel, y un jefe de un grupo terrorista que lo mismo. Si ese material llega a manos inadecuadas, y todos sabemos que parte de la política internacional de Irán es terrorista, se puede montar un follón enorme en Oriente Medio.

En ese sentido ha sido ideal el ataque israelí, con bisturí. Se debió hacer lo mismo en un principio con Irán y Corea del Norte.
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Shomer
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kilo009 escribió:En ese sentido ha sido ideal el ataque israelí, con bisturí. Se debió hacer lo mismo en un principio con Irán y Corea del Norte.
Ese fue el gran error de Israel, confiarse en que EEUU hiba a acabar con el programa nuclear iraní... Y ahora ya es tarde!

No se volverá a repetir! .. Cualquier país de medio oriente que intente iniciar un programa nuclear, será atacado! :evil:
kilo009
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Eso espero, por el bien de todos. En cambio yo no veo a los sirios con material nuclear, me huele que todo es cosa de los iraníes.

Un análisis que hace Mosaic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQKI-EH4kzQ&eurl=
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pagano
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Parece que Israel acaba de derribar un caza sirio (info puesta por Shomer en su foro).
Info al respecto en la web del Jerusalem Post
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull
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Esteban
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La noticia
IAF sends fighter jets after Syrian aircraft

Jets sent out in search of aircraft after it disappeared from IDF radar. Aircraft found crashed on Syrian side of the border, not believed to have been on hostile mission

Hanan Greenberg
Published: 09.22.07, 20:11 / Israel News

The IDF sent Israeli Air Force fighter jets after a Syrian aircraft that disappeared from IDF radar Saturday.

According to IDF sources, the Syrian aircraft was later found on the Syrian side of the border, after it had crashed.

The IAF jets found no evidence of the aircraft attempting an attack and proceeded to return from their mission safely.

Sending IAF jets after unidentified aircraft which fall off the radar is a standard method of operation in the IDF, the sources said.

Saturday's incident was the height of the recent tensions between Israel and Syria, following Israel's breach of Syrian airspace a few weeks ago and Syrian President Bashar Assad's statements regarding "the option of war". A heightened state of alert was noticeable all over Israel during Yom Kippur weekend as well, as thousands of policemen, Border Guards officers and civil guard volunteers roamed the streets.

The security establishment had eight specific indications of terror attacks as well as dozens of general alerts indicating that various terror organizations may try and stage a major attack during the weekend.

The security establishment is scheduled to hold a security assessment meeting later Saturday, to decide whether or not to lift the closure imposed on Gaza and the West Bank before the weekend.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 29,00.html

Parece que el avión sirio no intentaba nada hostil, sino que estaba siendo trackeado desde los radares israelíes hasta que se perdió el contacto.
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